This post is part of a larger online project that shares the positive and non-violent actions of Indigenous people
in different regions who have focused on
overcoming the negative effects of colonization. The interviewees speak
about the issues they were focused on, the approaches they took,
tools/strategies they used, and they provide some insights about what
they learned throughout the process.
Specific situations may differ, but community members in one region or
country may find that there is something to be gained from reading
the first-hand experiences of people in other Indigenous communities. People who
have initiated some positive change in their own life, their family or
their communities may have something to share with people in
other Indigenous communities who are coming up against a similar challenge.
The interviews are not heavily edited, and this resource is intended to reflect the experiences and opinions of the interviewees as faithfully as possible. The experiences and opinions of interviewees belong to them.
If you have an experience that fits within this project, please email me at info@thelawofpeace.org to set up an interview.
INTERVIEW WITH ALVIN DIXON
Name of Interviewee: Alvin Dixon
Community: Heiltsuk from Bella Bella, Central Coast
people of the Kwawkewlth Nation
Geographic Region/Location
of Kwawkewlth people: Campbell
River/Cape Mudge north to Kitimat, on Central British Columbia Coast, Canada
Roles in Community: school teacher; school counselor; fisherman; fisherman’s representative in fish pricing
and wage negotiation with fish processors; managed two fishing operations;
represented Canada as an advisor in international treaty talks with Russia,
Japan, and the USA; was one of Canada’s three representatives on an
international Pacific fisheries commission which managed the Fraser River
salmon stocks; Spent 35 years on DFO’s Pacific Region Licence Appeal Board, the
last 10 as Chair; Team leader with Indian Residential Schools Survivor Society’s
Health Support Workers.
Age: 75
Consent provided.
Q: What is the issue that you were facing? What was the
challenge that you wanted to do something about?
A: Well first of all, I guess one of the things I wanted to say is that…not
just First nations people but people in minority… people who face authority
regularly… “Be assertive!” Today was a good experience…the Royal Bank was
giving me the run around about a missing deposit I had made to my daughter’s
account in Ottawa, a significant amount, but I kept pushing them until the
matter was resolved to my satisfaction, and I didn’t back off. I find too many First Nations, as soon as
they hit the first stumbling block they quit. I have friends, you give them a
job to do, they go do it and then they hit a roadblock and they quit! And then
when you ask them what happened, they say, oh so and so said this that and the
other and I couldn’t do it. Well find a
way to go around that!! Well that’s sort of, I guess the way I’ve lived my
whole life. I don’t let things stand in the way of getting what I want, or
getting done what I want to do.
In high school, when I was moving from the Indian
Residential school classrooms from grade 8 to grade 9 in the Alberni School District
Public School system, I went to register for courses in the grade 9 classes. I was given three program options: commercial,
general or university. I chose to
register in the university program. So I
did all that and started attending classes, and about 2 weeks into the school
term the boys’ counselor called me down to his office and told me I was in the
wrong program. I said, “I’m in the right
program because I’m going to university”. He said, “No, people from your
school” - meaning the Indian Residential School in Alberni – “all end up in the
commercial program and that’s where you should start because you will end up
there anyway.” And I said, “No, I’m going to university”. And then we talked a bit
about things and how my marks were, like, straight As, and all of that didn’t seem
to mean anything. He felt that those teachers
were not up to standards…They may not have been, but I knew I was! And then he said, “Well let’s compromise. Why
don’t we move you to the general program and if you do well, we’ll move you
back into the university program.” I said, “No no no no! My idea of a
compromise is if I don’t do well where I am, you can move me anywhere you want
after that!” He said, “Okay. We’ll leave
you where are, but I can guarantee you that come Christmas exams, we’ll be
talking again”. Sure enough, we were
talking again after Christmas exams, only this time he was very red-faced and
embarrassed but he had the balls to apologize. I was 14 years old.
Q: That’s an incredible amount of confidence for a young
teenager!
A: He said, “Alvin, I have to apologize for the way I
treated you in September”. And the
beauty of it was that he went on to say that he would “never treat another
student from your school, like I tried to treat you”. “I’ll never do that again”, he said. That
teacher/counselor went on to a principalship in a new high school in Alberni where
a lot of First Nations students were registered.
Q: What year was that?
A: 1950.
Q: Wow.
A: I will be 75 in a few weeks.
Q: So you were a real pioneer then!
A: Yes, and even in saying that and hearing him say that, I
went straight from a residential school to a university and I was one of only
six First nations students at UBC in 1956. One of the teachings that got me
there, was my father always said, and these were his exact words, “Don’t ever
use being Indian as an excuse to fail”.
Use your stumbling blocks as stepping stones.
Q: What kind of support did you have, or teachings or tools to
have the confidence to stand up to authority figures?
A: Well my father for sure.
Verbally, he always told me I could do things if I chose to do them. I
could do them well. I just had to work
harder at it. Mind you, in high school I
didn’t have to work hard at it. It was easy! Something I assumed …I assumed
that everyone was like me. All I had to do was write something down and I would
remember it. When exams came, I would
flip my notes in my head for the answers.
Q: So you have a photographic memory?
A: I did then…I don’t have it now!!
Anyway, that was one of the things…but even before I was
fourteen, I guess I was probably 12. In
residential school they made you line up for everything. And we had these ex-military guys as
supervisors, and they used to like to line us up. Five different rows, from youngest to oldest,
shortest to tallest, kind of thing. I
happened to be in the middle row, right in the front. The supervisor would jump up on the bench in
the boys’ playroom; there’d be five rows of us - about 15-20 per row. He was a sergeant, like a staff
sergeant. He would bellow out, “At
ease!” and “Attention” and stuff like that.
And then he would have us march into the dining room, or to the
auditorium if we were going to assembly or worship or whatever, you know? Anyway, one day I decided, I don’t like
this. I’m not going to move when he says
“Attention”. And I was right in the
front of the middle row, right in front of him. And he jumped up there and
bellowed “Attention!” and I just stood there.
He jumped down and told me, “When I say ‘attention’, I want you to snap
to attention.” I didn’t do anything or say anything so he jumped up there and
bellowed and I didn’t move. He jumped
down and gave me a nice big wallop across the face, an open-handed slap. I
didn’t let it…I was … I was hurt – I mean he was a big guy with a big fist -
but I didn’t let it deter me. I didn’t move, I didn’t cry. And he jumped up
again and bellowed again and I didn’t move again. And he jumped down and
whacked me on the other cheek. And that
embarrassed him. So after that, he quit
trying to treat us like military kids, and just had us line up informally and
march into wherever we were going – dining room, assembly room or wherever.
Q: So you didn’t let it break your spirit and you showed
him…
Yeah, and it broke him. And this is at twelve. You just kind
of make up your mind and I guess that mental toughness… I would say comes from
the 5 years I spent with my little grandmother.
Q: Okay! So your
grandmother was inspiring you?
Yes, she and I lived together in a little house on the
beach. She would haul me out of school
in the middle of March when things started appearing like harvest time for
seafood and seaweed. And then right though the summer and into the late fall …she
would keep me out of school until mid-November until our last salmon was smoked
and canned and then she might let me go to school for two or three months. But in all those years, the five years I was
with her from age 5 to 10 we would travel our territory by rowboat, just her
and I. And it wasn’t just local
traffic. We would overnight and sleep on
the beach or the boat and row again until the next night and sleep on the beach
until we got to where we were going which was maybe 100 miles away at the
longest, 60 miles on average. And just
by rowboat! Can you imagine a little 5 year old rowing a boat??
Q: I can’t imagine!
Yeah, and never mind doing it all day! That’s the
thing. And when we got to where we were
going, from early morning to dark we would be peeling bark, digging roots, or
catching salmon, cleaning salmon, canning salmon, smoking salmon, digging
clams. All of that physical activity as
well as gathering wood for fire. And
that was a normal day! I used to envy kids who were swimming and playing at our
beach when I was a child, I wished I could do child things. But in the long
term, I look at that as what sort of toughened me up for what I experienced not
just in residential school but everywhere in life.
Q: So she taught you a lot then?
She taught me by example.
She didn’t preach or say much…she just said, “We’re going to do this,
and we’re going to do that”. And I would say to myself, “Boy, I don’t know how
we are going to do that!” And another thing: Just imagine, for example only,
say, if we were in Vancouver and wanted to row to Nanaimo, then we would do
that! And a motor boat would come along and offer a tow, and she would refuse
it! And I’m the guy on the oars cussing her out in my mind! “Stupid little
bitch!” heh heh…
So that is the kind of
experience that surely, surely stood me well when dealing with crap not just in
Alberni but in life generally.
Q: So she was teaching you determination, right?
A: Oh yeah, toughness and determination. Stability and
stamina, you know?
Q: Did you ever find that …I guess you used that not only
when you were young, in high school and in Alberni, and with that school
counselor, but this is also a tool and strategy that you have used throughout
your life…Have you ever found that you have come up with a roadblock or
obstacle where it didn’t work so well? Like in negotiations or something or has
it always stood you in good stead?
A: It always…even in heavy duty negotiations with fish
processors, I stood my ground and my constituents would always say, “Boy you
represented us well”, because I stood my
ground and didn’t let these White people, fish processors, scare me or lead us
astray. I did my homework and I knew
what should be on the table and went for it.
Q: I guess that’s the key…its knowing who you are and what
it is you stand for…
A: Yeah, and do your homework, I think. Today I see too many people expecting
something for nothing because that’s what Indian Affairs has made them. I have brothers and family that only depend
on government. I have never ever done that, even when I was at university.
There were six of us on campus. Five of
them were paid by Indian affairs. I wouldn’t accept Indian Affairs money. I was
already making lots of money in the fish cannery as a teenager, could afford to
pay my own way, and I didn’t want to be accountable to anybody but me, so I
paid my own way.
Q: Very independent minded!
A: Yeah.
Q: So when you look back at all your life’s experiences,
using this particular strategy of staying true to yourself, what would you say
you are most proud of? Is it the incident in the schools with the counselor or
something else?
A: I think getting accepted and recognized in industry as an
equal, you know like when I was appointed as an international commissioner and
when I was acknowledged by the corporate representatives as an equal. They didn’t see me as…they might initially have
seen me as an Indian but after that they saw me as an equal. I think that is
what I’ m proudest of.
Q: Was that a good outcome you didn’t expect?
I didn’t expect it to come naturally. I knew I had to work
like hell to gain that respect, so I did what I had to do to gain it. Too many people accept not to be accepted so
they just don’t try. That’s the problem
with most people, y’know. They see the roadblocks and they don’t want to
challenge them.
Q: Is there anything, as you look back…I think I know what
you’ll say…is there anything you would have done differently, if you look back?
A: You know that is an impossible…it’s impossible to look
back and say “I would have done this”. It’s past. It’s been done, y’know? I’ve often thought about….say I went to work
for Indian affairs and I would have had a good pension today, but that’s not
important! It’s what I’ve done for myself and my family and my community that’s
important.
Q: If someone were to…I think you’ve answered this too…if
somebody were in a similar situation…like maybe a young person who is 14 and
going to school and someone is streaming them out, or facing an obstacle with
an authority figure, what would be your advice?
A: Well, I would tell them to stick with it. I’ve already
had that with kids, y’know, who want to quit school or go to a program with
less options and less future and opportunities.
High school kids, y’know? That don’t think they can get into
university. I use my own experience as
an example. Another thing is that…I tell people not to quit, because once you
quit, each time you run into something it’s easier the next time to quit, and
you keep quitting and quitting and quitting and you get nowhere. It becomes a cycle. And that’s what lots of
people are in…a cycle of quitting. I
have lots of friends who have had dozens of jobs, but they keep quitting
because they don’t want to stand up for themselves.
Q: That’s a very wise piece of advice.
A: Yeah, when you quit once, then it gets easier and easier
and easier each time, when you see an opportunity to quit.
Q: Well Alvin, that was a fascinating interview! Do you have
anything else to add?
A: Not really. I
don’t think I’ve made perfect choices but I’ve certainly gone after what I
wanted.
